But there *is* a solution: the brevé templating engine http://breve.twisty-industries.com/. This is a pure python templating engine. No need to learn any new templating engine. It is a very clever solution, in my opinion.

“About MVC and MTV discussion, does MVC fits a web application that well”

I would say not at all according the definition in the orginal document. The definition as been distorded since. I think I have found a document that explain that a controller could generate HTML :

http://www.jcorporate.com/expresso/doc/edg/edg_WhatIsMVC.html

But this document sounds like a bad joke to me.

“It’s like when you type “exit” or “quit” on the Python interpreter and it answers you with “Use exit() or Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit”. Please pay attention: the interpreter does not say “NameError: name ‘exit’ is not defined”! [...] This kind of stuff really puts me off.”

$ irb
> def quit; puts “quit”; end; quit

Fail!

If you don’t like Ctrl+D, use:

>>> import sys; sys.exit()

About MVC and MTV discussion, does MVC fits a web application that well (all CRUD views apart)?

Weel fed troll anyway ;-)

http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhatsaControllerAnyway
http://wardley.org/computers/web/mvc.html
http://www2.jeffcroft.com/blog/2007/jan/11/django-and-mtv/#c20446

Oh, come on, gimme a break. This is about standards, my friend. If these guys like to reinvent the wheel, I do not. Again, it’s a matter of taste, but in *other* technology stacks, we lose more time discussing about *our* apps’ functionality rather than the underlying frameworks inconsistencies.

http://st-www.cs.uiuc.edu/users/smarch/st-docs/mvc.html

“Smalltalk-80 presents the appearance that control resides in the mouse. As one moves and clicks the mouse, the objects on the Smalltalk-80 screen perform much as an orchestra obeying its conductor”

When I started to read the controller role I get very confused. Certainly this document is the root of a lot of good thing and make sense in desktop development but, for me, it seems that this naming convention has been abused to many times. MVC is a very general concept and must not be taken as the holy graal for naming a 3 tier web app.

ROR and Django have exactly the same layout. Maybe it’s just that the Django guys found that the MVC naming convention sucks and choiced another one.

Qt guys also thougt that MVC is not the silver bullet for their framework : http://doc.trolltech.com/4.0/model-view-programming.html

“Rails’ logger is Ruby’s one, and that hasn’t stopped DHH to explicitly turn it on in the framework. See?”

What do you call explicit is not explicit for me. If you have to know that the framework imported the logging module for you I will call it implicit or maybe convention. In python you more like you have to import implicitly any thing you want use.

“It’s like when you type “exit” or “quit” on the Python interpreter”

So, The interpreter tells you that its not the right way to do it. You are not interested to use the right command and learn a little more about the language? It think it’s valuable to know how to quit a programm correctly.

Claming that python/Django are not explicit will means that python creator had completly failed his mission because it’s on of the most fondamental principle of the language : >>> import this

“Yesss… but they still have to learn *that* template language :) Will they?”

Obviously yes.

“What? Make them sign an NDA in that case!! If you don’t trust the people you work with, well, don’t work with them in the first place! :)))”

I completly agree. But maybe you want to open template editing to someone that is not trusted at all, for exemple the site users (my space)… But this feature let a lot of others unresolved security problems open…